#20 – Meta Matters – Learning to Learn
Part 5 – Sir Mark Elder, Orchestral Conductor, gives his take on learning leadership
If you had told me five months ago, when I launched Practical Counsel, that the twentieth edition of this newsletter would be an interview with a leading orchestral conductor I’d have questioned your grip on reality.
I always intended Practical Counsel to offer a fresh perspective on leadership in the context of in-house legal - but I envisaged inputs from CEOs and CFOs and perhaps the odd learning specialist, rather than from one of the world’s leading orchestral conductors, described recently as “a true Nestor, a man of wisdom and great experience, and a grand maestro in British musical life1”.
Some might question my own grip on reality in inviting a conductor to provide his take on learning leadership, asking what possible relevance his views could have for those tasked with running in-house legal departments.
It turns out though that there are significant parallels between the hierarchy of a medium-sized legal department and that of a classical orchestra. And Sir Mark’s insights are, in my view, valuable and profound.
No ‘dear Jonathan’ email this week. An immediate dive into the conversation I was privileged to have with Sir Mark a few days ago. And, following that, my attempt to draw a few key takeaways from that conversation.
Enjoy reading, and please comment and contribute to the debate by posting direct on Practical Counsel. Also, please write in with your unique people issues to me (practicalcounsel@substack.com) - I unequivocally undertake never to reveal your identity and will change key details of your situation so as to preserve your confidentiality and anonymity (unless you don’t want this). I also undertake to write to you personally with my own thoughts and comments on your situation and am always happy to follow up with a call on Zoom or similar.
My Interview with Sir Mark Elder
Sir Mark Elder is a British conductor, with a global reputation as one of the world’s leading orchestral conductors. He is currently musical director of the Hallé Orchestra in Manchester, England, and principal guest conductor (from August 2022) of the Bergen PhilarmonicOrchestra.
JM: Jonathan Middleburgh
ME: Sir Mark Elder, CH, CBE
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JM: First off, Sir Mark, a huge thank you for agreeing to chat to Practical Counsel. It’s a real honour that you’ve agreed to do so. I’ll start off with what is perhaps an obvious question. What relevance does leading an orchestra have to leading a corporate legal department?
ME: I know very little about legal departments, only what you’ve told me yourself. But the orchestra of 60 to 80 players has a hierarchy very similar to the way you’ve described a legal department of similar size.
An orchestra plays as a whole but consists of a number of sections, say a section of 16 violins, or a section of 3 trumpets. In a modern orchestra the leader of each section has to be able to run that section, and this requires real leadership skills.
JM: We’ll come on to the leadership skills of the conductor, but I’m fascinated that you say a section leader also has to have real leadership skills. Can you expand on this a bit?
ME: Of course. Take the leader of a string section of 6 to 8 players. It’s his or her role to ensure that everyone is marching in the same lane, as it were, to meld a unanimity of approach. This requires genuine leadership, both artistic, pastoral and general. Some find that leadership and some don’t.
Let me give you an example of leadership in practice. This is an extreme example but I remember one concert years ago where all three trumpeters came in exactly one bar too soon, in perfect harmony. Bear in mind these were three hugely experienced musicians, each one knowing the music inside out. Here the section was being so well led that the second and third trumpets automatically followed the principal trumpet’s lead. This was an extreme example, but demonstrated for me the extent to which a well-led section starts to play as one, instinctively following the section leader’s lead.
JM: When I am coaching senior in-house lawyers we often discuss the difference between ‘command and control’ leadership and ‘empowering’ leadership. Do the same distinctions apply to conductors, in terms of their leadership style?
ME: Yes. Many of the well-known ‘great’ conductors of the first half of the 20th century had autocratic styles. Herbert von Karajan was an obvious example, as was Arturo Toscanini. By contrast, and this is a 21st century example, the current Music Director of the Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra, Kirill Petrenko, has a more collaborative style.
The conductor has an extremely complex role. A key part of that role is to instill precision and discipline and to define the sound world appropriate for each piece of music. Another part of that role is to know when to let the orchestra take wing, rather like a parent at some point must allow a child to roam free. It’s very hard for a young conductor to achieve this, even though that conductor might understand intellectually the importance of doing so. In practice, there’s a tendency to micro-manage, rather than to loosen the conductor’s reins.
There’s no substitute for maturity, for a deepening of experience, to know when and how to let the orchestra take wing.
I conduct very differently now than I did thirty years ago. The key skill for me is to know, at any one point, how much or how little gestural leadership I need to exert. My physical presence and the projection of my body can, at its best, be a light to show the entire orchestra where we’re going. Similarly, to go back to the leader of each section, their body language – the use of their physicality – can show their section members when and how to play. This is, of course, difficult to perceive from the outside.
JM: That’s absolutely fascinating. There’s a strong body of research showing that 80% of communication is non-verbal and 20% verbal2. This, of course, has been challenging in a world of pandemic where lawyers had to adapt – like everyone in business – to working remotely and communicating via video technology, which doesn’t have the same immediacy, body language wise, as face to face communication. I’m very much of the view that many legal leaders underuse their physicality, or don’t use it optimally.
In the context of the orchestral conductor, how do you learn how to use your physicality?
ME: That’s interesting what you say about legal leaders, Jonathan. It takes decades to learn how to use your body to optimal effect. I have found, for myself, that the best way for me to learn has been by doing, and then by thinking about what I’ve done. This requires concentration and reflection. There’s no substitute for me, for the doing. It all comes down to experience and a process of maturation. Other conductors doubtless learn differently; for example, many take themselves to conservatoires where they study physicality as part of a conducting course or courses. Whichever path you take, the value of stringent self-criticism in rehearsal, is crucial.
Another point I’d make here is that it is a very poor conductor who draws attention to himself or herself. The audience only sees the most superficial aspects of the conductor’s craft. It’s a bit like in a horse race. As a spectator, you only see the most superficial aspects, such as the jockey spurring the horse on. You don’t see the minute changes of pressure of rider on horse, the split second timing that comes with immense experience.
JM: We’ve talked a lot in this series about the relevance of formal training versus ‘on the job’ learning. I take it from everything you’ve been saying that for you the key thing is the latter?
ME: Yes, it is. That’s not to trivialise or to minimise the role of conducting courses and formal conducting training for the very young conductor. Everyone has to start somewhere. There have been conducting courses for more than a century and musicians have studied conducting as a separate subject for well over a century.
But, yes. Ultimately I feel that I have learnt the deeper aspects of my craft through experience. Experience and self-reflection. And, of course, any conductor has to study a piece carefully before rehearsing it with the orchestra. And then in rehearsal the conductor prepares the orchestra to understand exactly what is wanted out of their performance - speed, energy and intensity; all of that on a second by second basis as the conductor takes the orchestra through the piece. And with maturity and experience, the seasoned conductor also learns how to react spontaneously to what the orchestra gives in the moment, to be nimble on his or her feet; to make spontaneous decisions, not previously thought about, in the moment.
JM: That’s also fascinating. And it chimes very much with my view of mature leadership in the in-house corporate context. The very best leaders similarly mature through experience, they learn how to respond with great maturity to each and every situation they face, as it unfolds.
Leadership has a dynamic aspect – the leader can develop very refined leadership skills, but she is dependent to a massive extent on the skillfulness of her followers. Would you care to comment on this aspect of leadership, in the orchestral context?
ME: We go through an incredibly thorough process when auditioning new players for the orchestra. The initial rounds are done behind screens, so that we attend 100% to the sound, and avoid being influenced by other factors, such as preconceptions based off prior knowledge of the player.
In the case of a potential section leader, they will play for an extended period as a member of the orchestra, and I will expect to interview them at the right moment. A player may sound brilliant at an audition, but have no feeling how to play as part of a team. And the role of the section leader goes way beyond leading the section when playing – it embraces pastoral care, nurturing the relationships between section members, mentoring younger players around career development issues.
So yes, the leader is, to an extent, only as good as his or her followers. But the leader is responsible for the recruitment and development of those followers. And I imagine that is the same in any mature organisation, whether it is a corporate legal department or a modern orchestra.
JM: Sir Mark, I can’t tell you how fascinating this conversation has been. I could talk to you about this topic for hours and hours. And the parallels to the corporate legal department are very strong indeed, I think.
Thank you for speaking to me, and I say that both on my own behalf and on behalf of the readers of Practical Counsel.
Key Takeaways
1. In the last few issues of Practical Counsel we have been exploring Meta Learning within the context of in-house legal – specifically how in-house lawyers can best ‘learn to learn’ leadership management and relational skills, and what the best learning environment is for them in terms of developing and strengthening those skills.
2. This week’s issue consists of an interview with Sir Mark Elder. He is a world-renowned orchestral conductor, Music Director of the Hallé Orchestra in Manchester, England, and Guest Conductor, from time to time, of many of the world’s great orchestras.
3. There is a strong degree of similarity between the structure and hierarchy of the mid-sized legal department and that of the classical orchestra. The orchestra is led by one individual, the Conductor, but each section of the orchestra has a section leader, who plays an important role.
4. By analogy the legal department is led by the GC or CLO, and senior managers (usually / often called DGCs) lead ‘sections’ of the legal department and report in to the GC or CLO.
5. The conductor (like the GC or CLO) has a complex role. He or she both has to instill precision and discipline, but also needs to allow the orchestra, at the appropriate time, to ‘take wing’. In the same way, the GC or CLO needs to set the framework, but needs to avoid micro-managing his or her reports.
6. In Sir Mark’s case, he prefers to learn by doing, reflecting carefully on each performance and learning from his experiences of conducting (both in rehearsal and in performance).
And now ………
Contribute to the debate and write in with your comments and observations. Also write to Jonathan with any other people issues you face as an in-house lawyer.
Jonathan can be reached by email atpracticalcounsel@substack.com
A note for you picky lawyers; and a plea for tolerance
I am a British lawyer by background and went to both school and University in the UK. So my English is British English. I have taken a conscious decision to write this newsletter in British English, but to try to avoid phrases that aren’t common outside the UK. Sometimes, though, I’ll use a phrase that isn’t commonly used outside the UK, without realising that it is a Britishism. I also endeavour to use the vernacular spellings of my contributors (e.g. to use US spellings for a US contributor), but won’t always get this right.
My plea is for you to tolerate the British spellings and grammar and the occasional Britishism. And to focus on the substance of the newsletter rather than the occasional (to you) annoying turn of phrase, bit of grammar or unorthodox spelling, or the occasional inconsistency in spelling as between, for example, UK and US ‘standard’ spellings.
Thank you and best wishes,
Jonathan Middleburgh
Strategic Partners
The words are those of Bernt Bauge, CEO of the Bergen Philarmonic Orchestra, as reported in Classical Music. Nestor was a wise king in Homer’s Odyssey, often interpreted as the wisest and (sorry, Mark) oldest of the Greeks in the Trojan War.